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La Cosa Nostra – State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation 1970 Report

Q. All right. Now, again we're going with this meeting of July the 14th, when you made these complaints to DeCavalcante and he told you he would try and help you out and tell Pecora to lay off, did he later call a meeting?
A. He did.

Q. And do you now remember where that was?
A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. Where was it?
A. Harriet Gold had called me and told me to come down to the office. This was late in the afternoon. And when I got there she said, "Sam's over at the restaurant around the corner from the office."

Q. He's over at the restaurant around the corner?
A. Yes.

Q. What was the name of the restaurant?
A. Angie and Min's.

Q. Now, did you go over there?
A. I did.

Q. And was Sam DeCavalcante there?
A. Yes.

Q. Was Sam "Red" Leonard there?
A. Yes.

Q. Was your partner with you at this point?
A. He was.

Q. How many other men were there, do you know?
A. There were two other men.

Q. Okay. Just so that I have this straight, over at this restaurant at this meeting called by DeCavalcante, you had DeCavalcante who called the meeting?
A. Yes.

Q. Sam "Red" Leonard?
A. Yes.

Q. You and your partner, Isadore Ungarten?
A. Yes.

Q. And two males who you don't know who they are?
A. Yes.

Q. Incidentally, to this date to the best of your knowledge have you ever laid eyes on Timmy Murphy, Thomas Pecora?
A. No.

Q. So whether he was one of the guys, of the other two unidentified males, I take it you can't tell us?
A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, what happened at this particular meeting? Did you make some accusations against Leonard?
A. Yes, I did.

Q. And what accusations did you make against him?
A. I accused him of causing me to lose those supermarkets, and he denied everything, naturally.

Q. Okay.
A. And there was no definite proof, but I did an awful lot of hollering.

Q. Okay. You were pretty mad, I take it?
A. Yes.

Q. Sam was kind of sitting as judge and jury of this dispute?
A. Yes, Yes.

Q. And you got pretty hot under the collar?
A. I did.

Q. Did Sam Leonard react in any way?
A. Well, he just denied everything.

Q. All right. Did, then, Sam DeCavalante finally get in or step in at this point?
A. At this point he did step in and said, "Calm down, fellows. Nothing can be gained by hollering at each other."

Q. Did Sam DeCavalcante tell you to do something with respect to those four stores that you had lost?
A. After the hollering died down he said, "You submit-rebid the stores that you lost."

Q. Rebid the four stores?
A. Yes.

Q. And did you rebid them?
A. I did.

Q. And how many of them did you get back?
A. I got back two of them.

Q. So as far as you know Sam resolved the difficulty. Two of them you got back and two of them you didn't?
A. Yes.

Q. Fifty-fifty, is that right?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, after this particular meeting with Sam "Red" Leonard, et cetera, wherein DeCavalcante had told you that you could represent yourselves as his partners, did there come a time when you took any member of his family into the business, or hired him?
A. Yes, I did.

Q. And whom did you hire? A. Sam DeCavalante's son, Robert.

Q. And do you remember about how long after this dispute it was that you hired Bobby?
A. This might have been about two or three weeks.

Q. And how long did Bobby DeCavalcante work for you?
A. He worked approximately a year.

Q. Was it your understanding that if Bobby worked out, et cetera, he might ultimately become a partner?
A. Yes.

Q. Did Sam tell you something about what he could do for your business in the way of clients?
A. Yes. He said he could build my business.

Q. Do you recall him using any phrase like he wouldn't double the business, he'd triple it?
A. Yes.

Q. He did say that to you?
A. He did say that.

Q. And he put his son into the business with you?
A. Yes.

Q. Just in shorthand, did Bobby work out as an employee?

A. Not too good.

Q. How long was he with you?

A. He was with us approximately a year.

Q. Where is he now as far as you know?
A. I wouldn't know.

Q. But he's no longer in the window cleaning business?
A. Oh, no, no.

Q. Now, during this period of time, aside from the money that you were paying to his son, did Sam DeCavalcante share at all in the profits of the business?
A. No.

Q. Never gave him a cut?
A. No.

Q. And he never asked for any.?
A. No, he never did.

Q. And he wasn't really in any sense your partner but you were just allowed to use his name?
A. Use his name.

Q. Did he get you any business?
A. He did.

Q. All right. Would you tell us about that?
A. There were two, there were two, different accounts in East Orange, and a total of six buildings, and he was very, very friendly with the principals involved in those buildings, the landlords, the owners of the buildings.

Q. Would you say that again? I don't think we have it.
A. He was very friendly with the owners of two corporations that owned six buildings.

Q. And what were the names of the corporations, if you remember?
A. One was Iorio, Iorio Construction Company.

Q. Iorio, that's I-O-R-I-O?
A. Yes.

Q. All right.
A. They owned three buildings.

Q. Right.
A. I don't remember the name then, but the name now for the other three buildings was Amato Holding Company.

Q. Amato Holding Company?
A. Amato Holding Company.

Q. And he told you that you were to start cleaning, in effect, those six buildings?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you go up and see those six buildings?
A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, when you went up to see the Iorio buildings, I think that you have described, these are all up in East Orange?
A. Yes, they are.

Q. What did you do, take a walk around to see what was involved?
A. Yes, I did.

Q. What were you to do with these buildings?
A. Start commencing cleaning the beginning of the month.

Q. All right. Cleaning all of them?
A. Yes.

Q. And all phases of janitorial services?
A. All maintenance.

Q. Did something happen while you were looking at the Iorio buildings?
A. Yes. Prior to taking over beginning the first of the month, I solicited the cleaning help that was in the building then. I walked in one early evening, and evidently one of the cleaning help notified the previous owner of the contract of cleaning the buildings.

Q. Okay. So that I get this, then, I take it you had talked to the people that were working cleaning up the job already about staying on?
A. Yes.

Q. And one of them tipped off the fellow that he was working for that had been doing the work previously, right?
A. Yes.

Q. Who was that fellow that was doing the work previously?
A. John Todaro.

Q. Where is this building?
A. East Orange.

Q. Is that the same John Todaro that's connected with Local 97?
A. Yes.

Q. He is the one that was here yesterday and took the Fifth Amendment? No question about that as far as you know?
A. Yes.

Q. You say he was still doing some maintenance work on these buildings?
A. Yes.

Q. Does he have a company which does such maintenance work
A. Yes.

Q. What's the name of that?
A. Todaro and Sons.

Q. As far as you know is he still active in it aside from these one or two buildings that he had as his private domain?
A. I don't think he's active in it.

Q. He kind of kept these aside?
A. As to himself.

Q. And he was losing them to you as a result of DeCavalcante's intervention?
A. Yes.

Q. Did Todaro come over and see you while you were working at the building?
A. Yes.

Q. Will you describe his reaction if you could, please?
A. Yes. He was terribly upset. "Why are you doing this to me?" and using some bad language.

Q. Used some bad language at you?
A. Yes.

Q. Tell you he'd get even with you, et cetera?
A. Yes, threatened me all sorts of ways. But---

Q. Because you were taking the account away from him?
A. Yes.

Q. What did you tell him?
A. I told him I had a partner involved and to go see him.

Q. You aren't talking about Isadore Ungarten, were you?
A. No.

Q. You told him to go see DeCavalcante?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you tell Sam DeCavalcante about this meeting with Todaro
A. I did.

Q. Did you ever have any trouble with Todaro after that?
A. No.

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