Q. All right. Now, again we're going with this
meeting of July the 14th, when you made these complaints
to DeCavalcante and he told you he would try
and help you out and tell Pecora to lay off, did he later
call a meeting?|
A. He did.
Q. And do you now remember where that was?
Q. Okay. Where was it?
Q. He's over at the restaurant around the corner?
Q. What was the name of the restaurant?
Q. Now, did you go over there?
Q. And was Sam DeCavalcante there?
Q. Was Sam "Red" Leonard there?
Q. Was your partner with you at this point?
Q. How many other men were there, do you know?
Q. Okay. Just so that I have this straight, over
at this restaurant at this meeting called by DeCavalcante,
you had DeCavalcante who called the
Q. Sam "Red" Leonard?
Q. You and your partner, Isadore Ungarten?
Q. And two males who you don't know who they
Q. Incidentally, to this date to the best of your
knowledge have you ever laid eyes on Timmy Murphy,
Q. So whether he was one of the guys, of the other
two unidentified males, I take it you can't tell us?
Q. All right. Now, what happened at this particular
meeting? Did you make some accusations
Q. And what accusations did you make against
Q. Okay. You were pretty mad, I take it?
Q. Sam was kind of sitting as judge and jury of this dispute?
Q. And you got pretty hot under the collar?
Q. Did Sam Leonard react in any way?
Q. All right. Did, then, Sam DeCavalante finally get in or step in at this point?
Q. Did Sam DeCavalcante tell you to do something
with respect to those four stores that you had lost?
Q. Rebid the four stores?
Q. And did you rebid them?
Q. And how many of them did you get back?
Q. So as far as you know Sam resolved the
difficulty. Two of them you got back and two of them
Q. Fifty-fifty, is that right?
Q. Now, after this particular meeting with Sam
"Red" Leonard, et cetera, wherein DeCavalcante had
told you that you could represent yourselves as his
partners, did there come a time when you took any
member of his family into the business, or hired him?
Q. And whom did you hire?
A. Sam DeCavalante's son, Robert.
Q. And do you remember about how long after this
dispute it was that you hired Bobby?
Q. And how long did Bobby DeCavalcante work for
Q. Was it your understanding that if Bobby worked
out, et cetera, he might ultimately become a partner?
Q. Did Sam tell you something about what he could
do for your business in the way of clients?
Q. Do you recall him using any phrase like he
wouldn't double the business, he'd triple it?
Q. He did say that to you?
Q. And he put his son into the business with you?
Q. Just in shorthand, did Bobby work out as an
Q. How long was he with you?
Q. Where is he now as far as you know?
Q. But he's no longer in the window cleaning
Q. Now, during this period of time, aside from the
money that you were paying to his son, did Sam
DeCavalcante share at all in the profits of the
Q. Never gave him a cut?
Q. And he never asked for any.?
Q. And he wasn't really in any sense your partner
but you were just allowed to use his name?
Q. Did he get you any business?
Q. All right. Would you tell us about that?
Q. Would you say that again? I don't think we
Q. And what were the names of the corporations,
if you remember?
Q. Iorio, that's I-O-R-I-O?
Q. All right.
Q. Amato Holding Company?
Q. And he told you that you were to start cleaning,
in effect, those six buildings?
Q. Did you go up and see those six buildings?
Q. All right. Now, when you went up to see the
Iorio buildings, I think that you have described,
these are all up in East Orange?
Q. What did you do, take a walk around to see what
Q. What were you to do with these buildings?
Q. All right. Cleaning all of them?
Q. And all phases of janitorial services?
Q. Did something happen while you were looking at
the Iorio buildings?
Q. Okay. So that I get this, then, I take it you had
talked to the people that were working cleaning up the
job already about staying on?
Q. And one of them tipped off the fellow that he was
working for that had been doing the work previously,
Q. Who was that fellow that was doing the work
Q. Where is this building?
Q. Is that the same John Todaro that's connected
with Local 97?
Q. He is the one that was here yesterday and took
the Fifth Amendment? No question about that as far
as you know?
Q. You say he was still doing some maintenance
work on these buildings?
Q. Does he have a company which does such maintenance work
Q. What's the name of that?
Q. As far as you know is he still active in it aside
from these one or two buildings that he had as his
Q. He kind of kept these aside?
Q. And he was losing them to you as a result of
Q. Did Todaro come over and see you while you
were working at the building?
Q. Will you describe his reaction if you could,
Q. Used some bad language at you?
Q. Tell you he'd get even with you, et cetera?
Q. Because you were taking the account away from
Q. What did you tell him?
Q. You aren't talking about Isadore Ungarten,
Q. You told him to go see DeCavalcante?
Q. Did you tell Sam DeCavalcante about this meeting with Todaro
Q. Did you ever have any trouble with Todaro after that?
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